Conjure Vs Strength - Guild Wars Forums

ajc2123 · Sep 27, 2010, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Ok so for a warrior build, I got a quick question. Would 10 strength do more damage with armor penetration than Conjure flame with the + damage? I am speccing Axe/Tactics/Fire magic atm (for the lack of strength shields for my heroes) and was wondering if the loss of armor penetration is a big deal in PvE. Eventually I plan to drop tactics for strength but ATM would it matter?

Fate Crusher · Sep 27, 2010, 03:20 PM // 15:20

PvE or PvP?

Conjure skills are very strong and speccing 3 less from Strength really does not affect your armor penetration/critical strikes to such an extent to make it a trade off.

But as you've mentioned, if you want the best out of conjure, you're going to have to go full offensive and drop your tactics attribute/skills.

Bandwagon · Sep 27, 2010, 03:24 PM // 15:24

10 XXX Magic + appropriate conjure + appropriate fire damage mod on axe > +10 Strength without factoring in the loss of strength skills (only the IAS really matters at this point), and +3 lifestealing / 20/20 to axe.

This is of course assuming enchant strips are not that frequent in the area you are doing.

Strength as a primary attribute is really only used to access powerful warrior skills, the 1% per str attribute only factors into special attacks used, and since static +damage effects ignore armor already, only the base damage will be affected by Strength.

Since you are devoting a lot of points into tactics I am assuming you are running the more offensive skills available to that attribute line to compensate for the loss of flail / rush from Strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Eventually I plan to drop tactics for strength but ATM would it matter?

Assuming "ATM" = Normal Mode, then no, it will not matter

ajc2123 · Sep 27, 2010, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

10 XXX Magic + appropriate conjure + appropriate fire damage mod on axe > +10 Strength without factoring in the loss of strength skills (only the IAS really matters at this point), and +3 lifestealing / 20/20 to axe.

This is of course assuming enchant strips are not that frequent in the area you are doing.

Strength as a primary attribute is really only used to access powerful warrior skills, the 1% per str attribute only factors into special attacks used, and since static +damage effects ignore armor already, only the base damage will be affected by Strength.

Since you are devoting a lot of points into tactics I am assuming you are running the more offensive skills available to that attribute line to compensate for the loss of flail / rush from Strength.

Assuming "ATM" = Normal Mode, then no, it will not matter

atm means at the moment lol. I only play HM nowadays.

mathiastemplar · Sep 27, 2010, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Sounds like a weak build to me, maybe you could share it.

I wouldn't use conjure in pve.. That 1sec cast is just too much for me.
If you want to play PvE effectively, go Hammer.

Besides that, there's a lot of stripping in PvE which will probably make strength more usefull in the end.

PvE foes in HM tend to have high armor, which means that the AP gained from strength will be much higher.

I'd go with strength, but sharing your build would help

Bandwagon · Sep 27, 2010, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

atm means at the moment lol. I only play HM nowadays.

I know.... but "at the moment" is relative to your progress in the game which I have no knowledge of since you didn't tell me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

I wouldn't use conjure in pve.. That 1sec cast is just too much for me.
If you want to play PvE effectively, go Hammer..

Underlined is opinion based, and the OP did not need an opinion. Your personal tastes are your own.
Bold is laughable, you can be effective in PvE with MANY warrior builds so long as your swinging your sword/axe/hammer/other prof's weapon (compare this to a caster). You would be surprised how much of your damage comes from just auto attacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

PvE foes in HM tend to have high armor, which means that the AP gained from strength will be much higher.

This is ~true. But on the same flip of the coin, static +damage is better since it applies to all attacks and bypasses armor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

I'd go with strength,

Generally I would agree with this, flail is too awesome to pass up for a non elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

......but sharing your build would help

I agree, it is hard to manage a skill's effectiveness just by itself.

In closing, if you want to keep your enchant on you (IE not let it get removed prematurely) COVER it, heroes are awesome at it.

byteme! · Sep 28, 2010, 01:27 AM // 01:27

I would NEVER use a conjure anything in PvE. Using a conjure forces you to use an elemental mod on your axe/sword/hammer. Which means you miss out on a ton of physical buffs. (barbs, mark of pain, etc....you get the point)

Xenomortis · Sep 28, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Would 10 strength do more damage with armor penetration than Conjure flame with the + damage?

On its own, no.
Remember that Strength's bonus only applies to attack skills, not regular attacks. Conjure's bonus is also completely armour ignoring and so isn't diminished by increased armour level, whilst the effective plus damage gain from AP does diminish with increase AL.
However, skills you may want to use in Strength become weaker and more importantly, you're locked into using an elemental weapon and your damage decreases a fair bit if Conjure is stripped. Since you no longer hit for physical damage, you can't use Barbs, Mark of Pain or Orders in your team build either.

But the biggest question of all is this.
Why are you using Warrior heroes?

ajc2123 · Sep 28, 2010, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

But the biggest question of all is this.
Why are you using Warrior heroes?

Because I don't have 10 Warriors. I can't always be the melee dps lol.

Yeah I know AI melee doesn't know how to flail/pump out the best dps compared to human, and the lack of pve skills doesn't help them. But I do like to use all my heroes just for fun, since at this point in the game, I have done mostly everything (cept for money titles) So I am just playing for fun.

But even though im not playing for the best, I still want my damage as good as it can be in certain aspects. Eventually I will get a strength shield and thus spec in strength, but I wanted to know if the damage loss is significant for now.

Seems as though its good enough for now from what your telling me, ty.

I'm not worried about loosing out on MoP and whatnot since I am making a fairly balanced team, with only around 1-2 physicals. My mesmer (the character I am doing this on) will most likely be able to out dps MoP with 2 physicals, allowing the necro to go full Death/utility(restoration/protection?)/SR

TY for all the input. Though I have to disagree that conjure is as useless as some to make it to be. PvE enchant stripping isn't THAT constant from my experience unless in elite areas.

Xenomortis · Sep 28, 2010, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Because I don't have 10 Warriors. I can't always be the melee dps lol.

Well a H/H casterball doesn't need melee DPS, but whatever.
I can't lambast you for running something subpar and questionable if you've already stated that's more or less your aim.

galactic · Oct 01, 2010, 04:39 AM // 04:39

1% armor penitration is roughly 1% damage

conjure is better as long as it doesnt get stripped and you can fit it

Sep 27, 2010, 02:58 PM // 14:58	#1
ajc2123 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: North of the wall Profession: Me/	Conjure Vs Strength Ok so for a warrior build, I got a quick question. Would 10 strength do more damage with armor penetration than Conjure flame with the + damage? I am speccing Axe/Tactics/Fire magic atm (for the lack of strength shields for my heroes) and was wondering if the loss of armor penetration is a big deal in PvE. Eventually I plan to drop tactics for strength but ATM would it matter?

Sep 27, 2010, 03:20 PM // 15:20	#2
Fate Crusher Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pie-land Guild: Warlords Of The Underworld [WoTU] Profession: Mo/	PvE or PvP? Conjure skills are very strong and speccing 3 less from Strength really does not affect your armor penetration/critical strikes to such an extent to make it a trade off. But as you've mentioned, if you want the best out of conjure, you're going to have to go full offensive and drop your tactics attribute/skills.

Sep 27, 2010, 06:30 PM // 18:30	#5
mathiastemplar Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Denmark Guild: Jade Reapers [JD] Profession: W/	Sounds like a weak build to me, maybe you could share it. I wouldn't use conjure in pve.. That 1sec cast is just too much for me. If you want to play PvE effectively, go Hammer. Besides that, there's a lot of stripping in PvE which will probably make strength more usefull in the end. PvE foes in HM tend to have high armor, which means that the AP gained from strength will be much higher. I'd go with strength, but sharing your build would help

Sep 28, 2010, 01:27 AM // 01:27	#7
byteme! Forge Runner Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: On Earth Profession: W/P	I would NEVER use a conjure anything in PvE. Using a conjure forces you to use an elemental mod on your axe/sword/hammer. Which means you miss out on a ton of physical buffs. (barbs, mark of pain, etc....you get the point)

Oct 01, 2010, 04:39 AM // 04:39	#11
galactic Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2010 Profession: W/Mo	1% armor penitration is roughly 1% damage conjure is better as long as it doesnt get stripped and you can fit it